Interesting aside: Wang Bei/Ronne, the international patient liason in Beijing for Dr. Xia, claimed that Dr. Betz had shut down operations because he kept making mistakes. Naturally, lies to slander the competition.
The biggest liar is still Dr.Betz himself. Patients with complications get to know his real face. He is a genuinely evil person and i can only warn people. Dr.Betz exposes his patients to more risk than most other doctors. He seems very friendly during consultation( for which he takes 400 Euro but doesn't even examine you. All you get is an x-ray, a photoshop mock-up and a sales pitch) but this is only his advertizing masquerade. Once you run into trouble you will find out he was lying to you.
His complication rates are indeed as high as shown by hanshi. I got similar figures (30-40%for femur patients and much higher for tibia) from different independant sources, all people who work with his patients.
How about his skills? Difficult to judge for a patient but there are 2 indicators which show that his skills are below average:
1. his high complication rate.
2. all other doctors do things completely differently(preparation, bone cutting, screw fixation, weight bearing, lenghtening amount, medication,etc) Therefore either Betz is correct or Guichet and Paley are correct. In view of Dr.Betz's high complication rates it is rather easy to give an answer to that.
With Dr. Betz it is well possible to get a worst case outcome, i.e. being crippled for life and not even reaching your lengthening goal after paying all that money. By the way, he is an old man and no longer at the height of his abilities. For his age he is doing too many surgeries(regular surgeries plus emergency surgeries for his complication cases). The fact that he overestimates his capabilities increases the risk for his patients. His team too is very weak. Interestingly, Nader who wrote here is assisting him during his surgeries. However Nader is only a medical student.
As for the treatment of Dr.Betz, after his patients leave the hospital there is practically no treatment. The patients are more or less on their own and there is hardly any follow-up by Dr.Betz. The patient could be dead and Dr. Betz wouldn't notice. Also there is no planning for emergency cases. There have been several times when patients had their nail broken that they couldn't reach Dr. Betz by phone. His assistants don't know what to do in that case either. Dr. Betz hardly ever takes precautions to ensure his patients safety. He will always tell the patient not to worry. I'm telling you, with Leg Lengthening you should be worried! And if a doctor tells you otherwise you can be sure it's unsafe with him.
Quote from: mistermystery82 on November 13, 2014, 05:27:51 AMInteresting aside: Wang Bei/Ronne, the international patient liason in Beijing for Dr. Xia, claimed that Dr. Betz had shut down operations because he kept making mistakes. Naturally, lies to slander the competition.
Yeah, there's a couple of characters on here whose primary goal is to slander the competition in the hopes of driving patients away from the competition. In the case of Dr.Betz, its the classic scenario of the underdogs nipping at the heels of the top dog to try and get a piece of the action. They would be much better served by trying to up their game and provide some legit competition rather than mud slinging. Unfortunately though, its seems that for these detractors, its much easier to try to drag someone else into the mud rather than clean up their act.
Quote from: Mime on November 15, 2014, 10:47:21 AMHis complication rates are indeed as high as shown by hanshi. I got similar figures (30-40%for femur patients and much higher for tibia) from different independant sources, all people who work with his patients.
Pray do tell, who are these so called "different independant sources" you are referring to? For all we know, you could be taking counsel from little green men. The figures posted above by Hanshi are basically a heaping helping of BS and even he did not bother to back them up after his pathetic attempt at math was exposed. So how about you put on your arithmetic hat and show us how you arrived at "30-40% for femur patients and much higher for tibia". In this endeavor, do not be afraid to brandish your most advanced command of statistics for fear that we will not comprehend it. You might be on to something here, but more likely it'll be a realization that you are not as good at math as you thought you were.
Quote from: Mime on November 15, 2014, 10:47:21 AMWith Dr. Betz it is well possible to get a worst case outcome, i.e. being crippled for life and not even reaching your lengthening goal after paying all that money.
Well damn, you just paraphrased the concept of a Gaussian distribution in a novel albeit crass manner. Read on it a bit. With any doctor, its possible to get a worst case outcome or a best case outcome. That's not news. If you're claiming to know the actual percentage occurrence of either, do regale us with the factual data, not annecdotes that might as well be coming from little green men.
Quote from: Mime on November 15, 2014, 10:47:21 AMBy the way, he is an old man and no longer at the height of his abilities. For his age he is doing too many surgeries(regular surgeries plus emergency surgeries for his complication cases). The fact that he overestimates his capabilities increases the risk for his patients. His team too is very weak. Interestingly, Nader who wrote here is assisting him during his surgeries. However Nader is only a medical student.
Say, do you know his actual age or this is another piece of information from the little green men? Secondly, what, in your "professional" opinion, is the ideal number of surgeries he should be doing at his age? How did you come to posses such intimate knowledge about his abilities so much so that you find yourself in a position to declare that he is no longer at the height of his abilities? Generally speaking, a rational person will go with the more experienced practioner as opposed to the upstart, particularly if that upstarts way of gaining clientele is by trying to slander the experienced practitioner.
Now personally, I leaned on Dr.Betz the day after my first surgery and we walked the length of the hospital hall together with no crutches. Didn't notice him struggling to support my 175lb frame. Neither did I notice him having any issues when he lifted up my roommate from the bed to a wheelchair.
Quote from: Mime on November 15, 2014, 10:47:21 AMAs for the treatment of Dr.Betz, after his patients leave the hospital there is practically no treatment. The patients are more or less on their own and there is hardly any follow-up by Dr.Betz. The patient could be dead and Dr. Betz wouldn't notice. Also there is no planning for emergency cases. There have been several times when patients had their nail broken that they couldn't reach Dr. Betz by phone. His assistants don't know what to do in that case either. Dr. Betz hardly ever takes precautions to ensure his patients safety. He will always tell the patient not to worry. I'm telling you, with Leg Lengthening you should be worried! And if a doctor tells you otherwise you can be sure it's unsafe with him.
Again, do enlighten us, what treatment are you referring to after leaving hospital? I left hospital after 2 weeks and continued to lengthen for another 2.5 months, and so did the more than dozen other patients who I knew during my lengthening, most of whom left Germany after the first month. Every day you take your meds, do physio, do clicking, repeat. What is this mysterious ailment that would need treatment for 3+ months or are you referring to the statistically unavoidable cases that end up with a broken nail or some other complication? There were 2 of such cases during my lengthening period so they do occur, but like hell are you going to imply that all patients need to be under treatment for 3+ months because 1-2% get broken nails or some other complications.
I also call BS on your declaration that "with Leg Lengthening you should be worried". That's utter nonsense and fear mongering. With Leg Lengthening you should be careful and observant. Myself and the vast majority of my peers did just that and are none the worse for wear after completing LL. Within that mix there will invariably be some who get a complication due to no fault of their own as well as the knuckleheads who test the limits and end up with broken nails and all sorts of other complications. You reap what you sow.
Finally, if you're going to make assertions, back it up with actually experience and facts as opposed to quoting bogus sources. You either put up the facts to back your assertions or shut up. You are entitled to your own opinions not your own facts, so expect to be called out if you try to potray your opinions as facts. I've clocked in excess of two years going through LL first hand, and I don't have the inclination to countenance charlatans who think they know a whole bunch about LL because, well, they googled it.
Ultimately, you are not fooling anyone. The only mystery that remain is which of the underdog doctors you are working with to try to scalp clients from Betz.
Well now we know who Atlas is working for 
Quote from: Cannibal on November 17, 2014, 02:03:55 AMWell now we know who Atlas is working for
All my posts include a footer that clearly indicates that I did LL with Betz in 2012, so it's not liked you've chanced upon some late breaking news. Secondly, I did my LL in 2012, well before this forum even came into existence, so its not like I decided to do LL 2 years ago in order to "work" for Betz on a forum that did not as yet exist. Unfortunately for me, I don't get visited by little green men to relay that sort of time travel information to me. Until I did my removal surgery in October 2014, I didn't know about the existence of this forum but I knew about the old forum. So, Cannibal, your point is?
Quote from: AtlasSearching on November 17, 2014, 02:27:43 AMAll my posts include a footer that clearly indicates that I did LL with Betz in 2012, so it's not liked you've chanced upon some late breaking news. Secondly, I did my LL in 2012, well before this forum even came into existence, so its not like I decided to do LL 2 years ago in order to "work" for Betz on a forum that did not as yet exist. Unfortunately for me, I don't get visited by little green men to relay that sort of time travel information to me. Until I did my removal surgery in October 2014, I didn't know about the existence of this forum but I knew about the old forum. So, Cannibal, your point is? Or did you just feel the need to run your mouth?
Any criticism directed toward Dr. Betz seems to hit a little too close to home as far as you're concerned is all I'm saying.
Mime is a former Betz patient as well. What makes your thoughts on Betz anymore legit than his?
Quote from: Cannibal on November 17, 2014, 02:37:24 AMAny criticism directed toward Dr. Betz seems to hit a little too close to home as far as you're concerned is all I'm saying.
Mime is a former Betz patient as well. What makes your thoughts on Betz anymore legit than his?
I don't have any issues at all with anyone voicing criticism of Dr.Betz or any other doctor. Hell, I've indicated in some of my posts that I personally know of patients who broke their nails, so I'm not sugar coating his track record. I do have issues with anyone who makes some assertions and doesn't back them up with data or facts. I'm not going to give a pass to anyone who says "30-40%" but can't show how they arrived at that figure. Neither am I going to give a pass to someone whose sources are mythical "different independant sources".
If someone steps up with an assertion that is backed up by verifiable facts/data, then I'll say Amen to that. That kind of information will stand on its own two feet by the nature of its own veracity, not someones subjective opinion. Where I come from, you don't pee on someone and tell them that its raining. That's basically what some guys on here are doing when they throw around some random figures and expect to get a free pass.
If I come across as being exacting, its because I have first hand experience with LL. I don't begrudge Mime or anyone else saying that they had a bad experience with Dr.Betz, nor should anyone else come to a conclusion based on my experience, but if anyone if going to start throwing around figures, they'd better be ready to show how they came around to them.
Of the more than 600 patients that have gone through Betz, my relevance is at most 0.167% and so is that of Mime. So if Mime is going to make a claim concerning 30-40% of patients, he'd better show us who these 180 to 240 patients are and how he came to know of their experiences. But if he is speaking of his own personal experience which amounts to 0.167% as does mine, then I say, by all means proceed sir.
Fact is no one here including yourself Atlas is actually giving any facts, just pure subjective opinions. Why? Because until Dr Betz actually shows any of us actual numbers and records of patients, its all he said, she said. You say 600 patients, based on what? Word of mouth from Dr Betz? He could say 10,000 patients and you'd still believe him. No doctor will ever release these sort of information to patients, you're naive if you think otherwise
He probably did 600, no one here knows, only he knows. And I do agree that not all of his so called 600 patients write diaries but the ones who did, do provide some insight on their experiences. 30-40% is not a definitive answer and I highly doubt anyone on here including Atlas will have a definitive answer. So take it with a grain of salt and make your decisions carefully.
Me personally I dont care since I wont be going to Dr Betz, not because of his alleged complication rates but simply because he is/was affiliated with Sysop/Apo/Andersen or w/e else pseudonyms he's going with these days. Just that alone is enough for me to think that Dr Betz is more of a businessman than a caring doctor. And no I dont have pure facts or numbers to back that statement up. Anyone affiliated with Sysop is just as bad. And because I prefer Precice and not having to click
Hanshi's math is correct. Nobody can prove it wrong. This Atlas guy has no arguments against it but is just trolling.
Dr. Betz is 63 years old.
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