So you guys primarily will say how you will not be the same after LL. You both did tibias from my understanding. So in the Rozbruch video of the guy who did 3inches on his femur, he ends up being able to play basketball again less than 11 months after his surgery WITH his rods still in.
Do you both believe this testimony and think that it's realistic that he would be back playing with full knee ROM and little to no complications? Or do you feel it's more advertising and that he probably still experiences pain and will still experience pain until the rod removal and maybe forever?
I just want to know both of your opinions on the matter as that is an encouraging video to watch but happy testimony's always make me skeptical. I would have inboxed you guys but I think it would be informative for the community to hear your opinions.
I didnt say that you can't do sports after LL.
But you are less stable, less flexible, less fast and generally you are worse than before from a little to too much if you lengthened a lot or had complications (malunions, tendon recessions etc).
So no, you are not like before but you could still be normal. You cant be a professional athlete but you can be an amateur one.
Altering your biomechanics so much is obviously enough to not be the same again. But if things go right and stay in the safe zone of lengthening then you"ll be completely normal.
This raises the question of whether femurs lengthening gives a better athletic recovery than tibias lengthening.
Quote from: Bruce Wayne on June 04, 2018, 04:13:06 PMThis raises the question of whether femurs lengthening gives a better athletic recovery than tibias lengthening.
If you stay less than 6cm and have a completely straight bone alignment I dont think that athletic recovery is worse with tibias.
But things may easily go bad with tibias thats why most of the times femurs are safer.
Quote from: Body Builder on June 04, 2018, 05:05:03 PMIf you stay less than 6cm and have a completely straight bone alignment I dont think that athletic recovery is worse with tibias.
But things may easily go bad with tibias thats why most of the times femurs are safer.
Athleticsm is very broad and consists of many different movements. But would you agree that tibia lengthening would make you less stable than femur lengthening?
I thought external tibia was supposed to be the safest and least invasive form of LL while femur lengthening carries more risks of FE, PE, malalignment, broken nail, internal infection, etc. It also stretches more and larger muscle groups.
Quote from: Johnson1111 on June 04, 2018, 03:50:14 PMSo you guys primarily will say how you will not be the same after LL. You both did tibias from my understanding. So in the Rozbruch video of the guy who did 3inches on his femur, he ends up being able to play basketball again less than 11 months after his surgery WITH his rods still in.
Do you both believe this testimony and think that it's realistic that he would be back playing with full knee ROM and little to no complications? Or do you feel it's more advertising and that he probably still experiences pain and will still experience pain until the rod removal and maybe forever?
I just want to know both of your opinions on the matter as that is an encouraging video to watch but happy testimony's always make me skeptical. I would have inboxed you guys but I think it would be informative for the community to hear your opinions.
I'm not BodyBuilder or Sweden, nor have I had CLL done (as of this point), but since you decided to make it a community discussion I'll offer input.
I'll preface the post by pointing out that usually when people say that you "won't be the same" after CLL, barring serious crippling/paralyzing complications like what happened to unicorn and others like her, what people mean is your athletic abilities/potential won't be the same after you've "fully recovered" from the surgery, i.e. to the point that you can walk and run again.
If a guy is playing basketball/football/soccer/lifting weights 11 months after his surgery with his rods still in, does this prove that he's recovered his athletic abilities? No.
Why? Because as Bruce Wayne said (and I can't believe I'm quoting him):
QuoteAthleticsm is very broad
So let's take a look at this piecewise.
Off the top of my head, there is one athletic parameter that will absolutely, 100%, inevitably change about you as a result of doing CLL: your Center of Mass.
CLL will result in significant mass gain. Take a look at the diaries of CLL veterans; the ones who measure their weights throughout the CLL process will note that they lose some weight during the consolidation/recovery period, then gain a MASSIVE amount (i.e. 8+ lbs or 3.6+ kg) of weight after they're fully recovered with their rods out, which is to be expected, given that bone tissue is the heaviest in the human body.
Because you lengthened your legs artificially, all that new mass is concentrated there, i.e. you still have the torso and other bone proportions of a person who is your original height. As a result of this new mass and its uneven distribution, your center of mass necessarily changes.
It is this change that results in the "loss of balance" that people would theoretically experience as a result of CLL.
I can think of several athletic fields where this change in Center of Mass would be absolutely devastating to your performance, namely gymnastics and wrestling/grappling-based combat. It's particularly devastating for the former. Many gymnastics "stunts"/maneuvers rely on your CoM and your ability to properly manipulate yourself around it. I'm inclined to say that it would be extraordinarily difficult, if not absolutely impossible, for a "fully recovered" CLL patient who was a gymnast before their surgery to ever take up the sport again, even as a hobby.
Beyond this, there are several other crucial things that are also VERY likely to change, but the extent of these changes are difficult to measure/quantify even for the person themselves, such as:
1.) Soft tissue (tensile strength/integrity): As most posters here know, Distraction Osteogenesis results in the distension of connective tissue in and around the area that was lengthened. The amount of mass in your body has increased (as we discussed in Center of Mass section), but the amount of soft tissue has not - all that's happened is your old soft tissue stretched itself out.
This is a problem for various reasons. First, your soft tissue's tensile strength will probably be reduced. That is, the amount of "extra stretching" it can do will be severely hampered. It's likely that you'll be more susceptible to tendon/ligament tears and ruptures after CLL, because the cross-section of the tissue is thinner (and therefore more frail) as a result of the stretching.
Second, your weakened, distended connective tissue must now exert force on an increased amount of bone mass. Where your soft tissue developed and was designed for manipulating X amount of bone tissue, it now has to manipulate X + Y bone tissue (where Y is the amount of bone mass gained through CLL). This is probably the reason people report "loss of stamina" and "having a hard time running" or otherwise exerting force with their legs. Their weakened connective tissue has a very hard time manipulating their more massive bones.
2.) Flexibility & R.O.M: Ties back into connective tissue integrity/tensile strength. The distension of connective tissue during lengthening causes it to be more taut at rest than it normally would be (if I'm not mistaken, "ballerina foot" and similar problems occur as a result of extreme cases of this). Think of it like a rubber band that's being stretched out. The already-stretched tissue would naturally be resistant to further stretching and have a harder time doing so.
It would most likely be extremely difficult, for example, for kickboxers who underwent CLL to perform high kicks/axe kicks/any kind of kick that requires flexibility.
These are just off the top of my head.
Sure, a person who undergoes CLL might be able to perform simple athletic tasks like jump up and down (basketball), run back and forth (soccer/football/tennis/etc), swim, and so on. But it's almost inconceivable that their stamina/power/flexibility will be anywhere near the level it was at prior to the surgery. Similarly, their CoM would be permanently changed to one that would most likely be very unnatural and unwieldy (due to disproportions created by the surgery). It's not an issue of getting used to it, either. It's a biomechanics issue.
jsut want to chime in regarding bodybuilder. I saw him on the old forum when he had his 1st surgery. He posted picture of himself before it was removed.
Believe me when I say it,this guy has other issues with his appearance that makes his love life so bare. I see him constantly arguing here with absolutes when discussing women and dating, just ignore him a bit. He needs psychologist, not another LL. He needs to accept his apperance and flaws or he will forever be undergoing cosmetic surgeries.
Quote from: extremis on June 04, 2018, 08:20:34 PMI'm not BodyBuilder or Sweden, nor have I had CLL done (as of this point), but since you decided to make it a community discussion I'll offer input.
I'll preface the post by pointing out that usually when people say that you "won't be the same" after CLL, barring serious crippling/paralyzing complications like what happened to unicorn and others like her, what people mean is your athletic abilities/potential won't be the same after you've "fully recovered" from the surgery, i.e. to the point that you can walk and run again.
If a guy is playing basketball/football/soccer/lifting weights 11 months after his surgery with his rods still in, does this prove that he's recovered his athletic abilities? No.
Why? Because as Bruce Wayne said (and I can't believe I'm quoting him):
So let's take a look at this piecewise.
Off the top of my head, there is one athletic parameter that will absolutely, 100%, inevitably change about you as a result of doing CLL: your Center of Mass.
CLL will result in significant mass gain. Take a look at the diaries of CLL veterans; the ones who measure their weights throughout the CLL process will note that they lose some weight during the consolidation/recovery period, then gain a MASSIVE amount (i.e. 8+ lbs or 3.6+ kg) of weight after they're fully recovered with their rods out, which is to be expected, given that bone tissue is the heaviest in the human body.
Because you lengthened your legs artificially, all that new mass is concentrated there, i.e. you still have the torso and other bone proportions of a person who is your original height. As a result of this new mass and its uneven distribution, your center of mass necessarily changes.
It is this change that results in the "loss of balance" that people would theoretically experience as a result of CLL.
I can think of several athletic fields where this change in Center of Mass would be absolutely devastating to your performance, namely gymnastics and wrestling/grappling-based combat. It's particularly devastating for the former. Many gymnastics "stunts"/maneuvers rely on your CoM and your ability to properly manipulate yourself around it. I'm inclined to say that it would be extraordinarily difficult, if not absolutely impossible, for a "fully recovered" CLL patient who was a gymnast before their surgery to ever take up the sport again, even as a hobby.
Beyond this, there are several other crucial things that are also VERY likely to change, but the extent of these changes are difficult to measure/quantify even for the person themselves, such as:
1.) Soft tissue (tensile strength/integrity): As most posters here know, Distraction Osteogenesis results in the distension of connective tissue in and around the area that was lengthened. The amount of mass in your body has increased (as we discussed in Center of Mass section), but the amount of soft tissue has not - all that's happened is your old soft tissue stretched itself out.
This is a problem for various reasons. First, your soft tissue's tensile strength will probably be reduced. That is, the amount of "extra stretching" it can do will be severely hampered. It's likely that you'll be more susceptible to tendon/ligament tears and ruptures after CLL, because the cross-section of the tissue is thinner (and therefore more frail) as a result of the stretching.
Second, your weakened, distended connective tissue must now exert force on an increased amount of bone mass. Where your soft tissue developed and was designed for manipulating X amount of bone tissue, it now has to manipulate X + Y bone tissue (where Y is the amount of bone mass gained through CLL). This is probably the reason people report "loss of stamina" and "having a hard time running" or otherwise exerting force with their legs. Their weakened connective tissue has a very hard time manipulating their more massive bones.
2.) Flexibility & R.O.M: Ties back into connective tissue integrity/tensile strength. The distension of connective tissue during lengthening causes it to be more taut at rest than it normally would be (if I'm not mistaken, "ballerina foot" and similar problems occur as a result of extreme cases of this). Think of it like a rubber band that's being stretched out. The already-stretched tissue would naturally be resistant to further stretching and have a harder time doing so.
It would most likely be extremely difficult, for example, for kickboxers who underwent CLL to perform high kicks/axe kicks/any kind of kick that requires flexibility.
These are just off the top of my head.
Sure, a person who undergoes CLL might be able to perform simple athletic tasks like jump up and down (basketball), run back and forth (soccer/football/tennis/etc), swim, and so on. But it's almost inconceivable that their stamina/power/flexibility will be anywhere near the level it was at prior to the surgery. Similarly, their CoM would be permanently changed to one that would most likely be very unnatural and unwieldy (due to disproportions created by the surgery). It's not an issue of getting used to it, either. It's a biomechanics issue.
Yes, I can imagine that an LLed kickboxer would have a hard time in performing high kick. But guess what, an LLed kickboxer would be less likely to get his own head kicked since his head is now higher.
Good thing is I've never been a fan of kicking. I'm a puncher. All I need is stability/balance and I can throw hard punches. My legs would just serve as blockers to the opponent's low kicks/middle kicks.
I certainly could benefit from the increased height which would make me less vulnerable to high kicks and possibly reach advantages since my shoulders would be higher and closer to the opponent's head level.
My only worry is the possible decrease in power of the tendon and loss of balance. These are very devastating.
Btw, mass gain is actually another advantage. Mass × velocity = force. Meaning you can generate more power.
Quote from: Bruce Wayne on June 04, 2018, 09:31:24 PMYes, I can imagine that an LLed kickboxer would have a hard time in performing high kick. But guess what, an LLed kickboxer would be less likely to get his own head kicked since his head is now higher.
Good thing is I've never been a fan of kicking. I'm a puncher. All I need is stability/balance and I can throw hard punches. My legs would just serve as blockers to the opponent's low kicks/middle kicks.
I certainly could benefit from the increased height which would make me less vulnerable to high kicks and possibly reach advantages since my shoulders would be higher and closer to the opponent's head level.
My only worry is the possible decrease in power of the tendon and loss of balance. These are very devastating.
Damn you really want to become your own Batman huh?
Quote from: tlannister on June 04, 2018, 09:06:08 PMjsut want to chime in regarding bodybuilder. I saw him on the old forum when he had his 1st surgery. He posted picture of himself before it was removed.
Believe me when I say it,this guy has other issues with his appearance that makes his love life so bare. I see him constantly arguing here with absolutes when discussing women and dating, just ignore him a bit. He needs psychologist, not another LL. He needs to accept his apperance and flaws or he will forever be undergoing cosmetic surgeries.
What other issues with my appearance do I have?
I am completely ok with my appearance generally except from my height which is just ok right now (not bad nor good) and I truly believe that when I reach 5.11 with another LL everything on dating will be much easier for me.
Just that, nothing more or less.
From the pics you say you could only see my thin (from muscle atrophy due to LL) legs with the monorails on, nothing else about my body or my facial characteristics. So what are my flaws that you've seen stupid liar? I have 47cm arms with less than 14% fat and a good face but I dont care to persuade you. I am just telling your lies about things you camt know as my pics showed nothing except from my tibias!
Nothing more than that!
And about my love life, I was almost never without a gf and I had sxx with at least 3x more women tham the average man (who had sxx with about 10 women in all of his life) and I am not even 30 yo.
And the absolutes you say I am talking about is that women grant a great importance to a man's height, so much that make it the number 1 trait in a man's appearance, a little above facial characteristics.
So before saying bs for someone that you dont know and tries to help fellow LL'ers- future LL'ers with his knowledge and experience about LL, think better and be more specific. Otherwise you are just a pathetic hater who insults without real evidence and have no life as your almost only post was about insulting me with lies.
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