To BodyBuilder/Sweden

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Quote from: Bruce Wayne on June 05, 2018, 06:44:03 AMYou even have no idea of what power fantasies are. Point out when I said I was gonna fly/disappear/etc. Everything I said was within the realms of possibility.

Theorycrafting about all the kung-fu bullsh*t you're going to use to "beat up" taller men like this

QuoteGood thing is I've never been a fan of kicking. I'm a puncher. All I need is stability/balance and I can throw hard punches. My legs would just serve as blockers to the opponent's low kicks/middle kicks.

Is a power fantasy. This is what you think fights look like in real life:



When in reality fights last seconds, nobody "kicks" or does any fancy karate "martial arts" idiotic sh*t except for EXTREMELY RARE instances, and by the time you're done fantasizing about what Wing Chung Hung Tiger Crane Lion Kung Fu tricks you're going to use on the other guy, you've already eaten a hook to the jaw and gotten floored, then you're on your back with your arms over your face trying not to get your skull caved in.

QuoteYes, everyone has to have plans. A boxer with no plans are like a solider going to war without strategy.

Lmfao. You don't know anything about fighting or war. You're a sheltered, immature, delusional, weak loser. The closest you've been to war or any kind of real fight is the video games you probably wasted your whole childhood playing

QuoteSpeaking of boxer, I highly doubt that Mike Tyson went to his fights reading your book.

Mike Tyson didn't need to read physics books to understand kinematics. Know why? Because he spent time practicing boxing instead of fantasizing about being a movie star kung fu badass and sh*tposting his idiotic coping mechanisms and delusions on internet forums where everyone considers you a raving clown and a joke.

QuoteI have no interest in becoming Albert Einstein or

Trust me, your room temperature IQ coupled with your childish obsession with kung fu power fantasies ensures you're at no risk of becoming "Albert Einstein". And just LOL at implying that understanding 11th grade level kinematics requires you to be a genius-level physicist.

Quotekeyboard warrior (such as yourself).

It's laughable for you of all people to call anyone a keyboard warrior. I'm not the one sh*tting up the off topic section with 1000 threads about "giant slayer" short men that you fantasize about being (who only won a single fight against a tall opponent and lost dozens against others, but somehow the single victory makes them "giant slayers"), only to ultimately change your mind and decide you're going to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to have a height increasing surgery done anyway. LOL.

QuoteMy points stay.

1. Less likely to get my head kicked

Nobody kicks in a street fight, you brain-dead lunatic clown

Quote2. Not exactly reach advantages. Could be easier to reach his head.

Except that's what you said

QuoteI certainly could benefit from the increased height which would make me less vulnerable to high kicks and possibly reach advantages since my shoulders would be higher and closer to the opponent's head level.

Then I blew you the f*ck out and proved what an idiot you are and now you're moving the goalposts 

It doesn't matter whether it's "easier to reach his head". If you're fighting a man of equal height or taller, their reach is almost certainly going to be better than yours, meaning you're still at the EXACT same reach disadvantage you were before you spent $100,000 on a crippling surgery.

Not to mention you conveniently ignore your now weakened connective tissue and diminished explosive power, lol

QuoteI'm not sure about athletic mobility getting much reduced. Paley claimed his patients returned to sports at previous level. Maybe not exactly, but close enough.

Paley's claims? This is your argument? Lmfao

Paley is a salesman. It's in his best interest that you decide to get the surgery and do it with him, because that's how he makes money. Are you really stupid enough to think he's going to tell you that you're going to be permanently athletically crippled for the rest of your life as a result of getting CLL and risk you walking away with his $100,000?

Quote from: Body Builder on June 05, 2018, 12:23:15 PMValid points. In about 2 years from now and a little less I'll be able to do it with Stryde. I wish you too.

Extremis, LL with externals is here for more than 60 years and internals for more than 20 and all that time nothing else appeared to change height

No new FDA-approved cosmetic surgery procedure has appeared. Both Dr. Teplyashin and the Israeli doctor from the article in my previous post have developed techniques PROVEN to increase height in living creatures.

Additionally, it's dumb to assume that because the Ilizarov method has been used for 60 years and internal rods have been used for 20, that this somehow proves that no new technique could be developed in 10 years (or any number of years). It's a non-sequitur. This is why I say you don't understand science. 20 years ago (let alone 60 years ago), medical science wasn't anywhere NEAR where it is today, nor was the rate of scientific progress anywhere NEAR what it is today.

20 years ago the technology we have today would look like sci-fi stuff.

Quoteand all that time millions of people would like to change their heights (including very rich ones) with a safe alternative.

Really? Because I don't see any organized communities where those "millions of people" talk about wanting height increase surgeries or procedures. I see a few scattered communities like this one with userbases of less than 150 people on average posting under 50 threads a day, 75% of which are useless Off-topic sh*tposts about celebrity heights, anecdotes from their personal lives, or "uplifting"/"motivational" sh*t that belongs in a two-bit $5 self-help book.

Meanwhile, on HairLossTalk alone there are over 64,000 unique members (and this is just one forum out of several with similar userbases such as BaldTruthTalk, hairlossforum.co.uk, Reddit's r/tressless, HairRestorationNetwork, etc), many of whom pay OUT OF THEIR OWN POCKET to fly around the world to World Hair Congresses.

"World Hair Congresses? That's a thing?"

Yes, it is. The last one took place last year in Kyoto, Japan, and it was funded in part by the bald/balding men who went to attended the event, as well as RICH, "MILLIONAIRE" bald/balding men who want their hair back:

https://www.congre.co.jp/wchr2017/

Where are the "millions" of short men, particularly the rich ones, to arrange community events like this one, supporting and funding promising scientific research leading to a solution? From what I can see, most of those "millions" of short men are delusional copers who have been brainwashed by positivity-cultists into "owning their height" and "accepting themselves", and they end up posting on sh*thole circlejerk forums like r/short for the rest of their lives.

When these "millions of short men that want to increase their height" do what balding men are doing and have been doing for years now and we STILL fail to find a better solution than barbaric distraction osteogenesis, THEN you can talk about "nothing else" happening. Until then you're just making yourself look even more ignorant and uneducated than you usually look.

When we have similar-sized communities with the same interest

QuoteSo thinking that in 10 years that will happen, although we are not even a little close to that, is at least delusional.

I've debunked this so many times right in front of your face that I can only conclude you don't actually read my posts before responding to them.

QuotePersonally I think that with genome choice for infants, parents will remove genes that make a baby short, so for adults nothing will happen to change height except from LL.
 If not, then not even in 20-30 years we wont have a safe alternative. If you wont to become old and still wait for a miracle then so be it.

LOL. So you think that a superior alternative to distraction osteogenesis is more than 10 years away, but large-scale, publicly available genetic engineering for cosmetic purposes is close enough that such an alternative will in fact NEVER be developed.

And you call me delusional, LOL. I don't even need to comment further on this, the dumb sh*t you write says it all for me. You are a total scientific illiterate.

QuoteFor me, anyone who thinks realistically knows that Stryde is the best we can have for now and the next decades so it is now or never situation for all of us who want to get taller.
Personally, if I had the money I'll do it even today.

Fortunately, no one in the scientific community (or with 2 working neurons to rub together, for that matter) what some brain-dead gym rat coper "thinks" about what is or is not feasible to accomplish in medicine. You go ahead and get all the distraction osteogenesis you want, then move on, leave the forum, and go back to coping with your weights.

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Quote from: extremis on June 06, 2018, 02:28:26 AMTheorycrafting about all the kung-fu bullsh*t you're going to use to "beat up" taller men like this

Is a power fantasy. This is what you think fights look like in real life:

By now, you should realize how much of an idiot you are. My advice to actually leave that 11th grade book of yours for a second and actually start practicing what you like to pretend to be an expert in on internet forum.

Everyone's here is literally saying you're delusional. But guess you like to think that you're the next Einstein just because you read Physics Essentials For Dummies.

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Quote from: Bruce Wayne on June 06, 2018, 05:37:58 AM

An instructional video, a video of a professional cage match with referees and an audience, 2 clips where street thugs got lucky, and a 10 second video of a guy surprise jump-kicking an unsuspecting thug.

This is your proof? LOL. Just to reiterate: The first video is a tutorial, the second isn't a street fight, the fourth is a surprise attack which is no better than a sucker punch. There are TWO (2) 15-20 second clips in the worldstarhiphop video where some dumbass high school kid gets lucky with a kick.

Since you wanna play that game, here you go:



Sneak preview of what's gonna happen to you after your surgery when you try to act hard IRL and pull your idiotic kung fu wing chung wung kung whatever sh*t.

QuoteBy now, you should realize how much of an idiot you are.
My advice to actually leave that 11th grade book of yours for a second and actually start practicing what you like to pretend to be an expert in on internet forum.

Everyone's here is literally saying you're delusional.[/quote]

Literally parroting what I just said to you back to me. Not only are you dumb, you're incredibly unoriginal.

I didn't ask for your "advice". Nobody needs the advice of some embarrassing delusional loser that acts like an r/AsianMasculinity poster. You are a weak, pathetic keyboard warrior who is so terrified of getting his ass beaten in a fight that he's getting $100,000 surgery done to assuage his insecurity.

QuoteBut guess you like to think that you're the next Einstein just because you read Physics Essentials For Dummies.

Lmfao. Your IQ is so laughably, pitifully low that you couldn't even understand the insult.

The reason I suggested that you read Physics for Dummies was that I was implying that you wouldn't be intelligent enough to understand an actual collegiate-level Physics textbook. Thanks for proving me right. As for myself, I don't need to read books from the "for Dummies" series because I'm not a mouth-breathing retrograde ape like you.

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Quote from: extremis on June 06, 2018, 06:25:21 AMAn instructional video, a video of a professional cage match with referees and an audience, 2 clips where street thugs got lucky, and a 10 second video of a guy surprise jump-kicking an unsuspecting thug.

This is your proof? LOL. Just to reiterate: The first video is a tutorial, the second isn't a street fight, the fourth is a surprise attack which is no better than a sucker punch. There are TWO (2) 15-20 second clips in the worldstarhiphop video where some dumbass high school kid gets lucky with a kick.

Since you wanna play that game, here you go:



Sneak preview of what's gonna happen to you after your surgery when you try to act hard IRL and pull your idiotic kung fu wing chung wung kung whatever sh*t.
Everyone's here is literally saying you're delusional.

Literally parroting what I just said to you back to me. Not only are you dumb, you're incredibly unoriginal.

I didn't ask for your "advice". Nobody needs the advice of some embarrassing delusional loser that acts like an r/AsianMasculinity poster. You are a weak, pathetic keyboard warrior who is so terrified of getting his ass beaten in a fight that he's getting $100,000 surgery done to assuage his insecurity.

Lmfao. Your IQ is so laughably, pitifully low that you couldn't even understand the insult.

The reason I suggested that you read Physics for Dummies was that I was implying that you wouldn't be intelligent enough to understand an actual collegiate-level Physics textbook. Thanks for proving me right. As for myself, I don't need to read books from the "for Dummies" series because I'm not a mouth-breathing retrograde ape like you.

Yea thats my proof. What's your proof again?

If you simply scroll up the thread, seeing BB and other poster's post, then it should show clearly who is said to be delusional, moron.

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Quote from: extremis on June 06, 2018, 02:28:26 AMTheorycrafting about all the kung-fu bullsh*t you're going to use to "beat up" taller men like this

Is a power fantasy. This is what you think fights look like in real life:



When in reality fights last seconds, nobody "kicks" or does any fancy karate "martial arts" idiotic sh*t except for EXTREMELY RARE instances, and by the time you're done fantasizing about what Wing Chung Hung Tiger Crane Lion Kung Fu tricks you're going to use on the other guy, you've already eaten a hook to the jaw and gotten floored, then you're on your back with your arms over your face trying not to get your skull caved in.

Lmfao. You don't know anything about fighting or war. You're a sheltered, immature, delusional, weak loser. The closest you've been to war or any kind of real fight is the video games you probably wasted your whole childhood playing

Mike Tyson didn't need to read physics books to understand kinematics. Know why? Because he spent time practicing boxing instead of fantasizing about being a movie star kung fu badass and sh*tposting his idiotic coping mechanisms and delusions on internet forums where everyone considers you a raving clown and a joke.

Trust me, your room temperature IQ coupled with your childish obsession with kung fu power fantasies ensures you're at no risk of becoming "Albert Einstein". And just LOL at implying that understanding 11th grade level kinematics requires you to be a genius-level physicist.

It's laughable for you of all people to call anyone a keyboard warrior. I'm not the one sh*tting up the off topic section with 1000 threads about "giant slayer" short men that you fantasize about being (who only won a single fight against a tall opponent and lost dozens against others, but somehow the single victory makes them "giant slayers"), only to ultimately change your mind and decide you're going to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to have a height increasing surgery done anyway. LOL.

Nobody kicks in a street fight, you brain-dead lunatic clown

Except that's what you said

Then I blew you the f*ck out and proved what an idiot you are and now you're moving the goalposts 

It doesn't matter whether it's "easier to reach his head". If you're fighting a man of equal height or taller, their reach is almost certainly going to be better than yours, meaning you're still at the EXACT same reach disadvantage you were before you spent $100,000 on a crippling surgery.

Not to mention you conveniently ignore your now weakened connective tissue and diminished explosive power, lol

Paley's claims? This is your argument? Lmfao

Paley is a salesman. It's in his best interest that you decide to get the surgery and do it with him, because that's how he makes money. Are you really stupid enough to think he's going to tell you that you're going to be permanently athletically crippled for the rest of your life as a result of getting CLL and risk you walking away with his $100,000?
 
No new FDA-approved cosmetic surgery procedure has appeared. Both Dr. Teplyashin and the Israeli doctor from the article in my previous post have developed techniques PROVEN to increase height in living creatures.

Additionally, it's dumb to assume that because the Ilizarov method has been used for 60 years and internal rods have been used for 20, that this somehow proves that no new technique could be developed in 10 years (or any number of years). It's a non-sequitur. This is why I say you don't understand science. 20 years ago (let alone 60 years ago), medical science wasn't anywhere NEAR where it is today, nor was the rate of scientific progress anywhere NEAR what it is today.

20 years ago the technology we have today would look like sci-fi stuff.
 

Really? Because I don't see any organized communities where those "millions of people" talk about wanting height increase surgeries or procedures. I see a few scattered communities like this one with userbases of less than 150 people on average posting under 50 threads a day, 75% of which are useless Off-topic sh*tposts about celebrity heights, anecdotes from their personal lives, or "uplifting"/"motivational" sh*t that belongs in a two-bit $5 self-help book.

Meanwhile, on HairLossTalk alone there are over 64,000 unique members (and this is just one forum out of several with similar userbases such as BaldTruthTalk, hairlossforum.co.uk, Reddit's r/tressless, HairRestorationNetwork, etc), many of whom pay OUT OF THEIR OWN POCKET to fly around the world to World Hair Congresses.

"World Hair Congresses? That's a thing?"

Yes, it is. The last one took place last year in Kyoto, Japan, and it was funded in part by the bald/balding men who went to attended the event, as well as RICH, "MILLIONAIRE" bald/balding men who want their hair back:

https://www.congre.co.jp/wchr2017/

Where are the "millions" of short men, particularly the rich ones, to arrange community events like this one, supporting and funding promising scientific research leading to a solution? From what I can see, most of those "millions" of short men are delusional copers who have been brainwashed by positivity-cultists into "owning their height" and "accepting themselves", and they end up posting on sh*thole circlejerk forums like r/short for the rest of their lives.

When these "millions of short men that want to increase their height" do what balding men are doing and have been doing for years now and we STILL fail to find a better solution than barbaric distraction osteogenesis, THEN you can talk about "nothing else" happening. Until then you're just making yourself look even more ignorant and uneducated than you usually look.

When we have similar-sized communities with the same interest

I've debunked this so many times right in front of your face that I can only conclude you don't actually read my posts before responding to them.

LOL. So you think that a superior alternative to distraction osteogenesis is more than 10 years away, but large-scale, publicly available genetic engineering for cosmetic purposes is close enough that such an alternative will in fact NEVER be developed.

And you call me delusional, LOL. I don't even need to comment further on this, the dumb sh*t you write says it all for me. You are a total scientific illiterate.

Fortunately, no one in the scientific community (or with 2 working neurons to rub together, for that matter) what some brain-dead gym rat coper "thinks" about what is or is not feasible to accomplish in medicine. You go ahead and get all the distraction osteogenesis you want, then move on, leave the forum, and go back to coping with your weights.

It is better to do all the things you say than believing scientific bs of a doctor on Israel and another one on Rusia and thinking that I could become taller in a few years by doing an injection.
And also you are plain stupid if you think that no rich men really care to find a solution about short stature, although being short is the worst trait for a man and the hardest to change. Being short is a big taboo, more than being bald, thats why there are not many people who want to contribute to auch organizations with their name. But that doesnt mean that rich people dont give money to research about geting taller for a long time ago.

Finally, all these bs you say are because you cant accept that LL gives very good results, especially if you not exceed 5-6cm, and you are coward to do it and you just wait for a scientific miracle to make you 6ft+.
But you cant understand that even if that happens, if it is so easy then anyone would do it so you wont have any benefit if everyone gets tall.
So becoming tall wont matter like now, because anyone will be tall.

So although your scientific bs won't happen at least on the next decades, even if they will it won't give us any benefit. Of course heightism may stop which is very important but maybe people start obsessing by becoming taller and taller and have other kind of problems.
So now it is the time for any realistic short man to do LL. Anything else are things for delusionals and cowards.

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Quote from: extremis on June 06, 2018, 02:28:26 AM

Well, this thread is a clusterf*ck...

Anyway, I read more of Teplyashin's research than Alsberg's. However, I came across some snippets of Alsberg's older research on the bioengineering of cartilage.

Don't we lose height as we age due to the wearing down of joint (e.g. knee) and spinal cartilage? If that's the case, couldn't Alsberg's bioengineered cartilage - thicker than normal, worn down cartilage - already be used in a few years for a minimal height gain profile? I realize this is not the "Holy Grail", but isn't it an already possible alternative, given a supply meets a demand? I do hope everyone suffering from joint arthritis look into possible treatment in this area, too - that would initially be the main avenue of interest, anyway. So many are already using glucosamine sulphate, which has a much weaker foundation for the treatment of joint damage and osteoarthritis.

That could be one way of making some initial capital in this area of science and helping push it further, in the long run - like it happened with distraction osteogenesis (no initial cosmetic interest, outdated methods like Wagner's were completely replaced, IM nails were invented, CLL eventually became a thing, etc). With all that said, this is purely conjecture based on a layman's reading of Alsberg's older research.

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Bodybuilder is a mysoginisti

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You can still kick just as high as before - even reach higher than before LL.

I can still do the splits and kick straight up.

Basketball at a beginners level doesn’t require any direct explosiveness from your body. You can fool around with the ball and make some shots after a year, no problem.

I’ve reached the highest level of competitive martial art for men in my age(40+) today. In 2 weeks I’m participating in the European Championships.

I’m very grateful for being able to be a part of the game one last time. Makes me feel like 20 years old again traveling all over and fight my opponents. It’s the greatest feeling for me standing on that mat and represent Sweden.

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Quote from: extremis on June 04, 2018, 08:20:34 PMI'm not BodyBuilder or Sweden, nor have I had CLL done (as of this point), but since you decided to make it a community discussion I'll offer input.

I'll preface the post by pointing out that usually when people say that you "won't be the same" after CLL, barring serious crippling/paralyzing complications like what happened to unicorn and others like her, what people mean is your athletic abilities/potential won't be the same after you've "fully recovered" from the surgery, i.e. to the point that you can walk and run again.

If a guy is playing basketball/football/soccer/lifting weights 11 months after his surgery with his rods still in, does this prove that he's recovered his athletic abilities? No.

Why? Because as Bruce Wayne said (and I can't believe I'm quoting him):

So let's take a look at this piecewise.

Off the top of my head, there is one athletic parameter that will absolutely, 100%, inevitably change about you as a result of doing CLL: your Center of Mass.

CLL will result in significant mass gain. Take a look at the diaries of CLL veterans; the ones who measure their weights throughout the CLL process will note that they lose some weight during the consolidation/recovery period, then gain a MASSIVE amount (i.e. 8+ lbs or 3.6+ kg) of weight after they're fully recovered with their rods out, which is to be expected, given that bone tissue is the heaviest in the human body.

Because you lengthened your legs artificially, all that new mass is concentrated there, i.e. you still have the torso and other bone proportions of a person who is your original height. As a result of this new mass and its uneven distribution, your center of mass necessarily changes.

It is this change that results in the "loss of balance" that people would theoretically experience as a result of CLL.

I can think of several athletic fields where this change in Center of Mass would be absolutely devastating to your performance, namely gymnastics and wrestling/grappling-based combat. It's particularly devastating for the former. Many gymnastics "stunts"/maneuvers rely on your CoM and your ability to properly manipulate yourself around it. I'm inclined to say that it would be extraordinarily difficult, if not absolutely impossible, for a "fully recovered" CLL patient who was a gymnast before their surgery to ever take up the sport again, even as a hobby.

Beyond this, there are several other crucial things that are also VERY likely to change, but the extent of these changes are difficult to measure/quantify even for the person themselves, such as:

1.) Soft tissue (tensile strength/integrity): As most posters here know, Distraction Osteogenesis results in the distension of connective tissue in and around the area that was lengthened. The amount of mass in your body has increased (as we discussed in Center of Mass section), but the amount of soft tissue has not - all that's happened is your old soft tissue stretched itself out.

This is a problem for various reasons. First, your soft tissue's tensile strength will probably be reduced. That is, the amount of "extra stretching" it can do will be severely hampered. It's likely that you'll be more susceptible to tendon/ligament tears and ruptures after CLL, because the cross-section of the tissue is thinner (and therefore more frail) as a result of the stretching.

Second, your weakened, distended connective tissue must now exert force on an increased amount of bone mass. Where your soft tissue developed and was designed for manipulating X amount of bone tissue, it now has to manipulate X + Y bone tissue (where Y is the amount of bone mass gained through CLL). This is probably the reason people report "loss of stamina" and "having a hard time running" or otherwise exerting force with their legs. Their weakened connective tissue has a very hard time manipulating their more massive bones.

2.) Flexibility & R.O.M: Ties back into connective tissue integrity/tensile strength. The distension of connective tissue during lengthening causes it to be more taut at rest than it normally would be (if I'm not mistaken, "ballerina foot" and similar problems occur as a result of extreme cases of this). Think of it like a rubber band that's being stretched out. The already-stretched tissue would naturally be resistant to further stretching and have a harder time doing so.

It would most likely be extremely difficult, for example, for kickboxers who underwent CLL to perform high kicks/axe kicks/any kind of kick that requires flexibility.

These are just off the top of my head.

Sure, a person who undergoes CLL might be able to perform simple athletic tasks like jump up and down (basketball), run back and forth (soccer/football/tennis/etc), swim, and so on. But it's almost inconceivable that their stamina/power/flexibility will be anywhere near the level it was at prior to the surgery. Similarly, their CoM would be permanently changed to one that would most likely be very unnatural and unwieldy (due to disproportions created by the surgery). It's not an issue of getting used to it, either. It's a biomechanics issue.

Great breakdown on athleticism post-LL.

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Quote from: extremis on June 04, 2018, 08:20:34 PM
1.) Soft tissue (tensile strength/integrity): As most posters here know, Distraction Osteogenesis results in the distension of connective tissue in and around the area that was lengthened. The amount of mass in your body has increased (as we discussed in Center of Mass section), but the amount of soft tissue has not - all that's happened is your old soft tissue stretched itself out.

You made some really good points but this part is incorrect.

LL DOES NOT simply stretch the soft tissues, it creates new ones.
This is the BIGGEST misconception I see being repeated about LL in this forum and other places.

When you finish the lengthening phase the soft tissue will be only stretched but with time new soft tissue (muscles, etc...) is created. That's why we LL veterans usually took 2 years to get back in shape. It takes way more time for soft tissue to regenerate than bone tissue.
And if you fo too much lengthening and too fast you will have problems here, because a lot of scar tissue wili be generated instead of healthy soft tissue.

This is well researched (lots of academic papers about this, experiments done in rabbits, etc...) and one of the things I was careful in researching before I decided to do LL. I would never had done LL if it only stretched the soft tissues.