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Quote from: BetzLandLiberator on August 21, 2020, 04:24:01 PMYou made some really good points but this part is incorrect.

LL DOES NOT simply stretch the soft tissues, it creates new ones.
This is the BIGGEST misconception I see being repeated about LL in this forum and other places.

When you finish the lengthening phase the soft tissue will be only stretched but with time new soft tissue (muscles, etc...) is created. That's why we LL veterans usually took 2 years to get back in shape. It takes way more time for soft tissue to regenerate than bone tissue.
And if you fo too much lengthening and too fast you will have problems here, because a lot of scar tissue wili be generated instead of healthy soft tissue.

This is well researched (lots of academic papers about this, experiments done in rabbits, etc...) and one of the things I was careful in researching before I decided to do LL. I would never had done LL if it only stretched the soft tissues.

The soft tissues grow, but at much slower rate and can't keep up with the growth rate of the bones. Thus, in the end, still stretched.

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Quote from: BetzLandLiberator on August 21, 2020, 04:24:01 PMYou made some really good points but this part is incorrect.

LL DOES NOT simply stretch the soft tissues, it creates new ones.
This is the BIGGEST misconception I see being repeated about LL in this forum and other places.

When you finish the lengthening phase the soft tissue will be only stretched but with time new soft tissue (muscles, etc...) is created. That's why we LL veterans usually took 2 years to get back in shape. It takes way more time for soft tissue to regenerate than bone tissue.
And if you fo too much lengthening and too fast you will have problems here, because a lot of scar tissue wili be generated instead of healthy soft tissue.

This is well researched (lots of academic papers about this, experiments done in rabbits, etc...) and one of the things I was careful in researching before I decided to do LL. I would never had done LL if it only stretched the soft tissues.

The soft tissues grow, but at much slower rate and can't keep up with the growth rate of the bones. Thus, in the end, still stretched.

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Quote from: Bruce Wayne on August 21, 2020, 04:39:54 PMThe soft tissues grow, but at much slower rate and can't keep up with the growth rate of the bones. Thus, in the end, still stretched.

1 - I already said in my post that grows in a slower rate. Nothing new here.

2 - Your "thus" is totally wrong. It is not stretched in the end of the recovery phase. It is indeed stretched after the lengthening (as I already said in my post) but not after 2 to 3 years (that's how much it takes for all the new soft tissue to grow).

The idea that LL veterans have weak muscles because our soft tissue are stretched (that was extremis point) is just wrong.

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So how do LL’ers feel after two years? Do you guys feels just as same before LL? Getting any pains?

Btw : i would give my life if they were to find a way to reopen the growth plates. Or add artifical ones but no idea how are they going to do that in torso... arent they supposed to inject / put / whatever it is at the end of every single bone in torso?

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Quote from: Fox on August 21, 2020, 07:30:49 PMSo how do LL’ers feel after two years? Do you guys feels just as same before LL? Getting any pains?

Btw : i would give my life if they were to find a way to reopen the growth plates. Or add artifical ones but no idea how are they going to do that in torso... arent they supposed to inject / put / whatever it is at the end of the every single bone in the torso?

Ikr Fox. That's one of my concerns. The torso lengthening. My torso length is OK though. But I'm interested about artifical growth plates thing. How could it be possible? Can someone explain scientifically?

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Quote from: a on August 21, 2020, 07:54:51 PMIkr Fox. That's one of my concerns. The torso lengthening. My torso length is OK though. But I'm interested about artifical growth plates thing. How could it be possible? Can someone explain scientifically?

I dont know man but i highly doubt we’ll see something like that sooner than a decade. Making a sheep or a single finger taller/bigger is one thing, but making man grow taller altogether is another. But hey, this is science and i have no idea how fast it advances. But still...
dont get me wrong, i would even participate to that kind of thing as a guinea pig lol

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After reading through this and other threads I’ve changed my mind: I think if someone with the physical prep and mental fortitude BEFORE DURING AND AFTER surgery wanted to live an athletic lifestyle after CLL he could do so very comfortably, particularly if doing the modern Stryde nail with an excellent surgeon.

That being said, if you’re 5’7+ and ESPECIALLY if you’re already average (5’9+) and only looking to stretch out to bragging height territory (6 ft+)  you better be damn sure you really have that fighting spirit in place going into this procedure because I doubt you carry the same chip on your shoulder that a legitimately short person has. It takes a certain amount of adversity in life to be able to get up every day and fight hard for something - otherwise you better just be extremely self-disciplined. Not easy. How many times have you actually completed a New Years resolution? Followed through 100% on your diet and workout routine? How many “Cheat” days have you taken? Think about it...

I know I sure af DO NOT have what it takes to pull this off at 100% for upwards of 3 years even without money concerns. I wonder if anyone else was like me thinking this would be like any other plastic surgery, lol turns out it’s not remotely in the same galaxy as regular cosmetic surgery. Professional athletes have a hard enough time coming back from injuries nowhere near this extreme.

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Quote from: BetzLandLiberator on August 21, 2020, 05:16:13 PM1 - I already said in my post that grows in a slower rate. Nothing new here.

2 - Your "thus" is totally wrong. It is not stretched in the end of the recovery phase. It is indeed stretched after the lengthening (as I already said in my post) but not after 2 to 3 years (that's how much it takes for all the new soft tissue to grow).

The idea that LL veterans have weak muscles because our soft tissue are stretched (that was extremis point) is just wrong.

http://journalofprolotherapy.com/ligament-injury-and-healing-an-overview-of-current-clinical-concepts/#:~:text=in%20the%20world.-,Ligaments%20heal%20through%20a%20distinct%20sequence%20of%20cellular%20events%20that,is%20often%20slow%20and%20incomplete.

QuoteLigaments heal through a distinct sequence of cellular events that occur through three consecutive phases: the acute inflammatory phase, the proliferative or regenerative phase, and the tissue remodeling phase. The whole process can occur over months, and despite advances in therapeutics, many ligaments do not regain their normal tensile strength.

These are just the ligaments, other soft tissues also includes muscles, tendons, fascia, nerves, fibrous tissues, fat, blood vessels, and synovial membranes. Ancient Ilizarov technique is just too traumatic to our fragile bodies compared to the natural healthy growing that comes from growth hormone when the growth plates aren't calcified.

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Quote from: BetzLandLiberator on August 21, 2020, 05:16:13 PM1 - I already said in my post that grows in a slower rate. Nothing new here.

2 - Your "thus" is totally wrong. It is not stretched in the end of the recovery phase. It is indeed stretched after the lengthening (as I already said in my post) but not after 2 to 3 years (that's how much it takes for all the new soft tissue to grow).

The idea that LL veterans have weak muscles because our soft tissue are stretched (that was extremis point) is just wrong.

That's not exactly what I remember from the doctors I contact. But maybe I'll check again.

Quote from: Fox on August 21, 2020, 08:14:27 PMI dont know man but i highly doubt we’ll see something like that sooner than a decade. Making a sheep or a single finger taller/bigger is one thing, but making man grow taller altogether is another. But hey, this is science and i have no idea how fast it advances. But still...
dont get me wrong, i would even participate to that kind of thing as a guinea pig lol

If we can already grow sheep and human finger, why would human be very different? From what I read, sheep' legs are quite similar as human's

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Quote from: Bruce Wayne on August 21, 2020, 08:32:22 PMThat's not exactly what I remember from the doctors I contact. But maybe I'll check again.

If we can already grow sheep and human finger, why would human be very different? From what I read, sheep' legs are quite similar as human's

Well when growth plates were talked about i thought whole body will grow taller. I didnt think only legs. If so, yes the treatment will be around much sooner.

But what about evaluating side effects, being approved by certain authorities, and approving the procedure for cosmetic reasons? All possible within the ten years you think? (Real question, no pun intended )

And again, i would very much want it to happen even tomorrow if possible. I assume it will be much cheaper and faster alternative to LL. Hot damn! Think about it, surgery literally gets excluded.