upland
you never crossed any line. I speak the truth of what I see, nothing I say is based on emotive reasoning. I am impartial to emotion with the things I have told you. my aim is to state truths and hope you can see them.
also.
1)Average Height by Country (Youth:20-30 years)
Country/Average Male Height (cm)/population
2006-2010
Sweden 180.4
the reason for the height discrepancy is not because the younger generation is taller. it is because as you age you shrink. further more it can be argued that women do not selectively categorize average height to the men she wants to date but compared rather to all the men in her life.
in case you don't know what that means. it means that it is not conclusive that you warrant using the "advantages" higher average height as the true criteria for what women judge you against.
it can be argued that women judge height based on the men in their life not just the dating selection. and that this is a subconscious response to the law of averages.
my point is that neither opinion is conclusive. we just don't know the answer.
Quote from: GROWtalORdieTRYING1 on October 10, 2014, 08:11:49 PMupland
you never crossed any line. I speak the truth of what I see, nothing I say is based on emotive reasoning. I am impartial to emotion with the things I have told you. my aim is to state truths and hope you can see them.
also.
1)Average Height by Country (Youth:20-30 years)
Country/Average Male Height (cm)/population
2006-2010
Sweden 180.4
the reason for the height discrepancy is not because the younger generation is taller. it is because as you age you shrink. further more it can be argued that women do not selectively categorize average height to the men she wants to date but compared rather to all the men in her life.
in case you don't know what that means. it means that it is not conclusive that you warrant using the "advantages" higher average height as the true criteria for what women judge you against.
it can be argued that women judge height based on the men in their life not just the dating selection. and that this is a subconscious response to the law of averages.
my point is that neither opinion is conclusive. we just don't know the answer.
That's a good point to make I'm glad we've left the talk of leadership abilities and insecuritis behind. You're absolutely right in what you're saying but the mean height is the most consistent criteria to base assumptions on. If I remember the lessons on standard deviation correctly the average of 181 (rough estimate I know) should mean that about one in ten are 190CM or above. I believe the top 10% is an ideal (not neccessary for my psychological well being, thank you very much) range to be in. This is because, as we all know, tall height provides certain advantages and further I believe that anything above 195CM will give an insignificant boost to said perks while adding inconveniances like extra stress on sceleton, intimidation and less agility.
So there you have it a nice range between 190-195. Do you agree or disagree? Please tell me why and also what you think would be better.
QuoteI don't see anything morally wrong with me getting LL at average height.
there is nothing morally wrong with getting LL when you are average. as long as you admit that it is being done because of an internal insecurity and not an external discrimination.
the argument is not that it is morally wrong, the argument is one of realization. as long as you can clearly see that its an internal problem and not an external problem then by all means your mind is in the right frame of mind to get LL because it would mean you don't suffer from delusion on this issue.
also I disagree on the leader issue. people who are leaders are leaders at any height. it is a mentality, not a height, the only people you will be a leader over after LL (that you weren't a leader to before) are people who have a weak mind to start with.
QuoteSo there you have it a nice range between 190-195. Do you agree or disagree? Please tell me why and also what you think would be better.
well I disagree strongly. it is a bell shaped curve. girls prefer normality.
you will gain more girls at a taller height wanting to be with you, and loose all other height ranges of girls. the end result is that the small number od girls who now find you attractive is dwarfed by the massive number of girls in the population who now find you ugly(unpleasant, disagreeable, especially in appearance).
Quote from: GROWtalORdieTRYING1 on October 10, 2014, 08:37:29 PMthere is nothing morally wrong with getting LL when you are average. as long as you admit that it is being done because of an internal insecurity and not an external discrimination.
Yes, I openly admit this. I am not descriminated against for being average in height. I am, however, not assumed to be a leader or dominant male before talking or expressing myself. Once I show people who I am and what I am capable of, I can often take the role of a leader. This is not discrimination against me as a person of average height. It is a lack of benefits. I want to get these benefits and above all cure an insecurity and live a dream through LL.
this massive number of girls who now find you ugly will detract from your social power. however you will have increased social power with men with this new height.
the point is that after you get to a certain height (taller than average) you then start to skew which area you get social points in, you end up detracting more and more from your sexual social power and gaining more points in your peer male to male social power.
if you loose to much sexual social power you may even loose male to male peer power to a certain degree.
Quote from: Taller on October 10, 2014, 08:10:22 PMFirst, let me clarify my point on natural selection. If a person lacks the traits to mate with a certain person of high attractiveness/mating value (which is usually indicative of good child bearing abilities) because of that person's height standards, but LL makes then tall enough to be attractive to that person and mate with her, then the LL patient has effectively out competed all of the men who would have otherwise been the mate of the female in question. Though genes aren't directly involved, you are clearly seeing competition for mates and behavior (LL) affecting its outcome, so that the LL patient's genes are passed on with a desired and probably person whereas they might otherwise not have been. Having your genes instead of another man's inside the offspring of a "high value" woman might ensure longer term survival of your genes than if you'd mated with a less desirable woman without LL. The kids would have your genes and those of the socially valuable woman, and the woman's genes would probably ensure that the children with your genes fare well in the mating game as well since she has many attractive genes, or more than the women that you would theoretically have had without LL. It's a stupid and over simplistic theory, but I thought that it would be fun to throw it out there for the sake of discussion.
Wannabegiant, when did I say that I demanded or deserved the extra benefits that height has on leadership? Nobody deserves anything. Nature is randomness. Order and symmetry amidst this infinite randomness is a large component of beauty. But, back on track. We do the best to live the lives we want to live. Nature doesn't owe us anything and if we don't have it but really want it, we have to get it for ourselves one way or another. If I want something, I'll do my best to get it as long as it doesn't harm others unfairly. Of course justice is quite subjective, but I don't see anything morally wrong with me getting LL at average height. I could buy a car or house, but I'd rather upgrade myself and fix a long-standing insecurity instead of buying a car or house that won't give me nearly the pleasure and confidence that more height would. Call me greedy if you want to, but then call all luxury car buyers, game console buyers, and flat screen TV owners greedy too.
When did I say height automatically makes a person a leader? I didn't. I said that a person of average height has to work harder and do more to be perceived as a leader. I stand by this. What's wrong with trying to change myself to be more easily perceived as a leader and desirable, admirable man? Sure I don't need it, but I don't need my nice TV or clothes either. I view height as a much better investment than anything else. It won't just give me benefits, it will cure a long-standing insecurity too. My whole family is tall except for me, and it does kind of make me feel unhappy. Getting taller will be a luxury, but what's wrong with obtaining and enjoying luxuries if you've worked hard enough to obtain then fairly? You yourself talk about wearing nicer clothes than others to increase your value above that of the average 179CM dude. How are you not greedy while I am? I'd say we're both greedy. Humans are innately greedy.
I didnt say anyone here specifically demanded anything. However its obvious that a person who is average height and has admitted to not facing any legit discrimination and still wants LL is doing it for extra benefits/luxuries. i said nothing about who deserves what either, i just mentioned that there is a greater justification for shorter people to do LL compared to a average height person. However anyone is allowed to do it if they want to.
Also i dont think it is wrong or weird to be greedy, most people are to a degree. So i guess i dont understand why you guys are so defensive about this issue. It is greedy to feel that you need to have an expensive car to be happy, or other luxuries items, doesnt mean its not normal. And its greedy to want to be taller than average to get extra social benefits. The only reason im focusing on the word greed so much, is because that is the main distinction between shorter and average people who want LL, i dont think anyone should be annoyed about other peoples life choices like some shorter guys are on this site, but trying to make it sound like the same thing for everybody regardless of height is equally wrong. I dont have a problem with average height dudes wanting to be taller, but its not the same thing as under average people wanting to become average, its getting rid of a handicap vs wanting more benefits.
Btw, wanting height to get specific women that is more attractive than you can get with your current height is also greedy. Im sure at average height there should be women around that you find attractive enough to mate with that you can get, i could get attractive women even at below average height and many others on this site seem to have been able to as well. If you think extra height will help you get a 10 instead of an 8 or something, or make it easier, then that is normal but still greedy.
I didnt say me changing my dressing style would make me more special than the average 179 cm dude, i mentioned that i will finally start to care about dressing well since i am average height now. Thats not greedy. Btw im not saying im devoid of greed, never did. I didnt say it is a big deal either, but you are quite defensive of this matter, maybe because the word greed has quite a negative connotation.
Quote from: GROWtalORdieTRYING1 on October 10, 2014, 08:37:29 PMthere is nothing morally wrong with getting LL when you are average. as long as you admit that it is being done because of an internal insecurity and not an external discrimination.
the argument is not that it is morally wrong, the argument is one of realization. as long as you can clearly see that its an internal problem and not an external problem then by all means your mind is in the right frame of mind to get LL because it would mean you don't suffer from delusion on this issue.
also I disagree on the leader issue. people who are leaders are leaders at any height. it is a mentality, not a height, the only people you will be a leader over after LL (that you weren't a leader to before) are people who have a weak mind to start with.
Well said, you worded this better than i could manage.
Yes, I'm greedy 
And I reacted too strongly. My apologies for that, Wannabegiant.
I was defensive because, since joining this forum, I have felt that some shorter people don't approve of my presence because they feel that it is unfair to them and immoral for a person of average height to become tall through LL.
I don't see why everyone with height neurosis can't get LL and become happy, regardless of their starting height. It's hardly like a few 178-180CM people getting LL will push the average height up so much that shorter people who've had LL will become relatively short again.
Quote from: GROWtalORdieTRYING1 on October 10, 2014, 08:46:00 PMwell I disagree strongly. it is a bell shaped curve. girls prefer normality.
you will gain more girls at a taller height wanting to be with you, and loose all other height ranges of girls. the end result is that the small number od girls who now find you attractive is dwarfed by the massive number of girls in the population who now find you ugly(unpleasant, disagreeable, especially in appearance).
I can't believe most girl would find a 193CM guy unattractive because he is too tall. I suppose some women think it's unecessary but not unattractive. Actually when people mention height in Sweden the most idealized ones are 185+ and 190+. Why do you say women think tall men are unattracive I've never heard of it before.
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