Quote from: Zeo on January 26, 2018, 06:01:44 AM
That's literally what everyone here is doing. The permanent solution for us is CLL. Most posters here, not you apparently, is here because they wish to increase their height through CLL. We ALL know that there is benefits to being taller. That's why we're here. No one's saying "just be yourself" and forget about getting taller. We have our solution, for most of us we just have to save money for a few years.
It's funny how in the paragraph following this one in your post, you criticize me for generalizing many posters on this board (at least based on the content of their posts), they DO face a cruel, harsh and depressing reality, but you're perfectly okay with making the generalized claim that "the permanent solution for us is CLL".
To take a page out of your own book: Maybe that's the case for you.
Most posters here "wish to increase their height through CLL" because it's the only method available to do it. Most posters here would also prefer not to have to undergo a barbaric, crippling surgery with not-insignificant risks for permanent complications.
It's great that there are a lot of CLL success stories, but then there are stories like unicorn's or other patients who suffered serious complications that still persist to this day. Even a lot of the people who are "satisfied" with their CLL results have persistent complications (hampered athleticism, joint pains, reduced range of motion, stiffness, etc) that they try not to make a big deal out of because they basically feel the benefits of their new height outweigh the drawbacks.
What I'm saying is we shouldn't be satisfied with CLL. It's great that it exists and it's certainly better than nothing, but the fact is it's a 30+ year old surgery that has basically hit the cap in terms of how advanced it's going to get. At the end of the day, no matter what new devices come out (PRECISE 3, SYNOSTE or whatever), the whole thing comes down to cutting a bone and slowly pulling it apart.
If we had a more advanced and sophisticated procedure that was safer, less invasive, and didn't involve crippling yourself athletically for life or risking other permanent complications, nobody would look twice at CLL. What I'm arguing is that we're maybe 7 years away from such a procedure (science, especially stem cell research, has come a VERY long way in the last 3 years) if we all come together to support the scientists researching the relevant fields of study (epiphyseal plate regeneration, etc), and that it would benefit us all to do so because we'd all be able to partake in the newer procedure(s).
QuoteWhy the hell would we choose to be miserable and dwell on negativities while we save money/line up logistics to become taller? Especially because for a lot of us, it's not that bad, we just want to become taller. We will have the same outcome except one will be optimistic and one will be miserable.
Just because we want to have LL it doesn't mean we have a "cruel, harsh, depressing reality", maybe thats the case for you. You don't have to be depressed to get the LL, you just have to want the height more than the money/time.
I've met many more short men in my life who want CLL because their reality is "cruel, harsh, and depressing" than those who are getting it because it's just "a little bad". Even on this very forum and makemetaller, I've seen more depressed posters, posters whose lives have been ruined by heightism, and so on than I have posters like you.
Don't be a hypocrite.
Quoteand what I was saying in my example is that I would have cognitive dissonance if I convinced myself that "being short is really really bad", and I went out into my reality and see that it was actually pretty decent (will get even better with LL, which is why we are here).
The problem here is that your spin on my original analogy doesn't make sense from a logical perspective.
In my example, the person who gets convinced by positivity-posters that "being short isn't so bad" and then goes back into the outside world and suffers cognitive dissonance resulting from people's continued discrimination against him because of his short stature had already had negative social experiences because of his stature to begin with.
That's why they ended up on this forum to begin with. Think about it. Cosmetic limb lengthening surgery is an extremely obscure procedure. The average person on the street doesn't even know that this surgery exists. Would a short man who was happy or satisfied with his stature, who wasn't discriminated against or mistreated because of it, end up desperately and obsessively scouring the internet for ways to get taller to the point that they eventually find small, niche forums like this dedicated to an obscure, barbaric, expensive and risky surgery?
You don't really think that makes sense, do you?
In your example, you say that you "would have cognitive dissonance if you convinced yourself that 'being short is really bad' and then went out into reality and see that it was actually pretty decent'". Well, obviously, you had already been "out into reality" prior to ever discovering this forum (you didn't spend every single second of your life sitting at your PC in your room reading this forum - you've BEEN in the outside world before), so your exposure to reality after "convincing yourself that 'being short is really bad'" wouldn't be the first.
I said earlier that your version of the analogy doesn't make logical sense. I'll explain why here.
In this hypothetical scenario, we have 2 possibilities as to your life experience prior to arriving on this forum, and indeed prior to "convincing yourself that 'being short was really really bad'":
1) Prior to "convincing yourself that 'being short is really really bad'", you had several experiences with heightism and height discrimination (see examples of heightism already given in other posts). In that case, those experiences must have been quite egregious, since they drove you to "convince yourself that 'being short is really really bad'". That being the case, it is not likely that after being exposed to this forum and having your belief affirmed/supported by the "negative" (realist) posts on this board and returning to reality, you would somehow discover that being short is "actually pretty decent". After all, the thing that drove you to convince yourself that being short was 'really really bad' was the height discrimination you faced "out in your reality" to begin with.
So we have a contradiction.
2) Prior to 'convincing yourself that being short is really bad', you had never had any experience with heightism. In this case, it doesn't make sense that you would "convince yourself that 'being short is really really bad'". Why would a person who's had no negative experiences related to their stature come to such a conclusion? Why would they be able to be convinced by random forum posters that it is? This is like saying that you could convince a rich man that 'being rich is really really bad' just by telling him that it is, despite the fact that it doesn't line up with his real-life experiences.
In order for you to become convinced that being short is 'really really bad', there must be some basis for it in your life experiences. People don't just randomly start to hate a specific feature of themselves for no reason. This doesn't make sense.
So we again have a contradiction.
QuoteIdk it just sounds like your argument is: "Everyone should keep doing what you're doing (trying to increase our height), but be sad about it"
No. My argument is "everyone shouldd keep trying to increase their height without trying to delude themselves into thinking they're 'okay being short', or that 'being short isn't so bad', or any of the other dozens of platitudes that get repeated by the positivity posters."
In other words, be realists, not optimists. Why? Because optimism leads to unrealistic expectations, which leads to delusions, which results in what I explained to myloginacct. You end up in an endless cycle of "positivity" delusions that will get torn down when you go out into the real world.
How do I know they'll get torn down? The answer is I don't know for sure (I am not omniscient), but I can reasonably assert it because as I've repeated MULTIPLE times on this board, if you somehow find your way to a forum about a grisly, barbaric, crippling, expensive, obscure cosmetic limb lengthening surgery with tons of risks and actually intend to have it performed on you, the overwhelming likelihood is that you've already had extremely bad life experiences related to your stature. People aren't going to treat you differently just because you've changed your mentality when the whole reason they were mistreating you in the first place was not your mentality, but your stature.
Again, just so we're clear: short men who aren't in some way unhappy with their height and/or have not had negative life experiences based on their height do NOT end up on websites with names like "LIMB LENGTHENING FORUM", "MAKE ME TALLER", or any forum whose focus is an extremely painful, risky, barbaric surgery that has the potential to permanently cripple them athletically or even completely. "Normal", "well-adjusted", "happy" people don't know this surgery exists. They don't look for it, they don't sign up on forums to discuss it, they don't plan international trips to get it, they don't sit save up tens of thousands of dollars over the course of years to be able to afford it, they don't analyze their potential proportions before and after the surgery, they don't have anything to do with it.
I don't know how many times I've had to repeat this point. It seems like a lot of people have difficulty understanding it.
5'7 and more who want ll do you know the reason of your complex?
This is the limb lengthening forum, so I think it's ok to generalize that most people are here to get limb lengthening. If you want to discuss the efficacy of LL then that's a different conversation.
"I've met many more short men in my life who want CLL because their reality is "cruel, harsh, and depressing" than those who are getting it because it's just "a little bad". Even on this very forum and makemetaller, I've seen more depressed posters, posters whose lives have been ruined by heightism, and so on than I have posters like you."
Yes I agree with this, but I'm assuming you mean meet through internet than real life. I wish more posters had my mentality, and I'm sure you wish that more posters had your mentality. I guess at the end of the day we're not so different you and I. We're both trying to help short people feel better. But I'm pretty sure that you have much more negative thoughts than me day to day.
And the idea is not to delude yourself into this ignorant positive state where you just ignore everything bad. It's just to not let the negativity control your life.
Idk friend you keep writing these long paragraphs but you're pretty much saying the same thing.
also Bruce Wayne is an extreme example, no offense to him but he has a lot more problems then his height.
Quote from: extremis on January 25, 2018, 11:38:49 PMNo, you "fked" tons of women you thought were 10/10. Unless you were "fking" actual supermodels (as in, career runway models), you weren't anywhere NEAR the "10/10" range.
I don't know why you would consider this impressive or feel the need to point this out. I'm starting to think there may be truth to the meme that short men view having sxx with tall women as some kind of "achievement", as if it's a challenge.
News flash: A woman who's 178 cm tall is within the upper 1st percentile of female height, which is NOT a good thing in the least in terms of her sxxual attractiveness to the overwhelming majority of men.
Tall women are VERY often insecure about their height just like short men are, though not to the same extent due to the massive amount of validation women get from men and the ease with which they can secure a sxxual partner despite any physical flaw they have (just boot up Tinder or some other dating app).
The point is, having sxx with a tall woman as a short man isn't impressive. Both parties are undesirable to the majority of the opposite sxx. You're not "proving" anything by saying you had sxx with a tall woman. If you approached her, you are probably the first man to do so in a LONG time. Most men wouldn't want anything to do with a woman who would tower them in the 3-4 inch heels women wear on nights out.
http://www.psypost.org/2017/03/personality-traits-no-influence-initial-romantic-attraction-study-finds-48362
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/per.2087/abstract
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40806-017-0092-x
Please present your peer-reviewed behavioral analysis studies demonstrating the importance of """personality""" in attracting women?
Such insecurity,
Why are you so jealous ?
The fact that you live an insecure life with whatever your height does not prove that everyone under 170 is pathetic too.
I fcked a very beautifull girl 10 cm taller than me in a party where everyone was bare feet. That means you can do it. Also I dated a 170 at 168 for 5 months.
Those researches does not mean anything to me, I fked 10/10’s and now I’m dating one. You just go on, be insecure and jerk off all day.
U won’t get well with LL, go to a psycologist.
Quote from: jexus on January 27, 2018, 12:11:16 AM
Such insecurity,
Why are you so jealous ?
The fact that you live an insecure life with whatever your height does not prove that everyone under 170 is pathetic too.
I fked a very beautifull girl 10 cm taller than me in a party where everyone was bare feet. That means you can do it. Also I dated a 170 at 168 for 5 months.
Those researches does not mean anything to me, I fked 10/10’s and now I’m dating one. You just go on, be insecure and jerk off all day.
U won’t get well with LL, go to a psycologist.
fking tons of 10/10 woman is possible for a rich, famous and more than average in appearance man.
For NOONE else.
So, an 1.68 guy who is not a millionaire nor famous saying he fked tons of very beautiful women is a joke.
Especially when he is not ok with his life and chooses to do LL. If I had such success I'd never think about LL and the same would have done the 99% of LLers.
You are a sensible man Jexus so please don't exaggerate and write silly things like that.
@extremis:
For the next many years (20+) the one and only way to increase height will be LL.
Research is not even close to make people start growing again (that would also mean maybe the end of geting older etc which is a far reality if even possible) so anyone who wants to get taller has only LL.
But things are not what you describe. If things go well and you have a capable doctor and don't lengthen more than the safe limits your athletic abilities won't be diminished ?they'll be just less than before) and you can live normally with a better body and much better self esteem and social benefits.
And having stryde or any other full weight bearing magnetic internal nail makes LL completely different to what happens now or in the past so things will soon be better than even for future LLers.
So people should stop moaning, yes LL is not easy nor fast and cost a lot of money but it can solve our problem. And thats what it really counts for me.
Quotepluripotent stem cell production, 3-D bioidentical bone implants, etc.
What future are you seeing with these technologies?
I often think about alternatives to LL, and, so far, I haven't been able to think of anything that could happen in the next 10 years and also supplant CLL. The future is indeed unpredictable and science can leap exponentially, but I'm speaking generally. I do think all research towards the goal of allowing people to increase their height merits further funding, though.
Adriana Lima dated an average non-famous non-millionaire non-extremely handsome Turkish man, who is 2 cm shorter than her called Metin Hara.
He just writes books and She just liked him.
You are extremely insecure about girls but height is not an excuse for everything.
I did LL because my tibias were too short to my height probably were traumatised because of extreme heavy exercice at very young age. I look more proportionnate now.
I never had any problem with my height. I’m also not a millionaire. I’m just handsome and can talk with girls. I’m also a professional drummer I think that attracts lot of chicks.
Bodybuilder I’m %100 sure you have a chance with almost any girl under 175. The very rare ones that will eliminate you immediately bcause of your height are height obsessed themselves. Higher than 175 in girls is imo not very attractive I find them masculin.
Quote from: jexus on January 27, 2018, 10:06:19 PMAdriana Lima dated an average non-famous non-millionaire non-extremely handsome Turkish man, who is 2 cm shorter than her called Metin Hara.
He just writes books and She just liked him.
You are extremely insecure about girls but height is not an excuse for everything.
I did LL because my tibias were too short to my height probably were traumatised because of extreme heavy exercice at very young age. I look more proportionnate now.
I never had any problem with my height. I’m also not a millionaire. I’m just handsome and can talk with girls. I’m also a professional drummer I think that attracts lot of chicks.
Bodybuilder I’m %100 sure you have a chance with almost any girl under 175. The very rare ones that will eliminate you immediately bcause of your height are height obsessed themselves. Higher than 175 in girls is imo not very attractive I find them masculin.
My experiece says otherwise jexus.
1.74 is not enough for meny eomen regardless of their height. But I don't care. I live my life as good as I can and when time comes a second LL will make me as I imagine myself if things go well.
Lets hope I have the chance to see me at 1.80-81 and feel completely ok and have the successes I hope with the women I want.
#1 You don't actually need to be deluded to have BDD. It's part of the diagnostic criteria, but it's not essential. Even leaving that out, if you are obsessed with your physical appearance to the point that it prevents you from living a normal life and contributing to society, you're sick. I don't know why you're dissapointed with therapy having that outcome as a goal (patient becoming useful and productive). You owe a debt society, society doesn't owe you a thing.
#2 How tall are you?
Quote from: Thatdude950 on January 31, 2018, 10:28:08 AM#1 You don't actually need to be deluded to have BDD. It's part of the diagnostic criteria, but it's not essential. Even leaving that out, if you are obsessed with your physical appearance to the point that it prevents you from living a normal life and contributing to society, you're sick.
I don't actually know if you're addressing me with this post, but given the fact you mention "disappointment" with therapy, I'm going to guess you are.
I don't think anyone would argue that a person who becomes a recluse/shut-in or develops avoidant habits as a result of some physical trait they're unhappy about is mentally healthy. Whether or not this translates into a "body dysmorphia" diagnosis, however, is a different matter altogether.
Unless you're a psychiatrist, you don't have the right or academic acumen to make such an assertion, and you aren't, because if you were, you'd know that online diagnosing is not only unprofessional but inaccurate.
Quote
I don't know why you're dissapointed with therapy having that outcome as a goal (patient becoming useful and productive).
Because the patient is an sentient, self aware individual and not a cog in a machine. The goal of """therapy""" of any kind should be to remove the source of suffering so that the patient's quality of life improves, not put a band aid over it so they can cope with it just well enough for them to be "useful and productive".
QuoteYou owe a debt society, society doesn't owe you a thing.
LMAO
Just from reading this I can tell exactly what kind of person you are. You're wrong. Neither I nor anyone else "owes a debt" to society.
"Society" doesn't get up every morning to work a 10-hour shift (2 hours unpaid prep/transit time, plus an 8-hour shift). "Society" doesn't pay anyone's mortgage, health insurance, food, utilities, luxuries, and so on. "Society" doesn't suffer the effects of discrimination, whether it be based on height, race, looks, or what-have-you.
Individuals do all those things. I don't "owe" society anything. No one does. I've never heard such a ridiculous, asinine, absurd, arrogant, moralizing piece of idiotic rhetoric in all my life. It sounds like the kind of thing some uppity baby boomer know-it-all condescendingly says to young people, or maybe something a communist would say.
In fact, there's a much stronger argument in favor of the idea that "society" owes people something, because "society" is metaphysically dependent on individuals to exist. Individuals can exist without society. The converse does not hold true.
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